Oge Chigbo:

Welcome back to From the Front Row, brought to you by the University of Iowa College of Public Health. I’m Oge Chigbo and I’m here with Steve Sonnier. If this is your first time with us, welcome. We’re a student-run podcast that talks about major issues in public health and how they’re relevant to anyone, both in and out of the field of public health. Today is a very special episode because… Well, it’s one with the executive producer, Steve, and also my last episode on the podcast. So, yay! We’re graduating. Both Steve and I have journeyed with you all for the last two years, and as I said we will be graduating. But before we go, we’re going to talk to you all about what we’ve learned as public health communicators through the podcast and basically what’s next for us. So, hi, Steve.

Steve Sonnier:

Hi, Oge, great to have you back here and get to chat with you for our final episode together. Last ride.

Oge Chigbo:

This is sweet. This is bittersweet. It’s an exciting episode. Thank you guys. So we’re just going to go into some questions that I have, so I’ll go first asking. What made you want to get into podcasting?

Steve Sonnier:

That’s a really good question. I start out with actually our predecessor, Ian Buchta. When I was considering the next steps I had wanted to take in my education pathways, one thing I had done was see what students were currently enrolled in and what they were doing outside of just the general curriculum. This program actually stood out to me because of what Ian and others were creating at the time. Hailey Boudreau was an immense portion of that as well in moving the podcast forward and hearing the opportunity to talk with really significant figures across the field of public health, get those really diverse perspectives.

And it’s something that I really wanted moving forward was to understand more about public health, but also from a perspective as external to my own. I inhabit more of the health policy space, but policy interacts with so many different things and I really want it to be well-versed in that. And I felt like the podcast would give me that opportunity to pull from all these different backgrounds and really incorporate them into my understanding of best practices. And then what a policy-making could look like. How about you in your end? What got you into podcasting?

Oge Chigbo:

So for me, why I decided to join was because I was very shy and I loved the idea of podcasting. It’s something that I wanted to try out, but when it comes to like speaking or public speaking or speaking to a group or anything, I was really introverted. Ian came and he plugged his podcast so many times during orientation and I was like, “You know what? I think this is a sign, if I see this guy again, I’m going to say yes.” And then I saw Ian again, and I was like, “Okay, I’m doing this.” And then I was like, “Oh yeah, I want to try,” then Ian was like, “You know what, come Wednesday.” And I thought it was going to get like a training thing.

And he just puts me directly, and he is like “Okay. Record. Yeah. It’s your time. We’re going air this” And I was like, “What?” And ever since then, every single week Ian called me back, he was like, “You’re doing the intro and outro. Okay, come back.” And then, I don’t know. I loved it. I just got stuck. It’s been sad. I haven’t been on as much this semester because of things, graduation and stuff, but I love…

Steve Sonnier:

It’s a busy term.

Oge Chigbo:

Yeah. What have you learned from this podcast and working as a scientific educator about communicating science to people?

Steve Sonnier:

That’s a good question too, because the podcast as a whole really has taught me to be very versatile in a lot of things. And number one is creating questions for folks, but not just creating questions, but also creating the flow of an interview right. Coming into it. I think that when you’re starting out at the podcasting world, there’s a lot of just kind of reading off the script and it’s not really a dynamic conversation that you have with folks. And so it’s something you develop along the way, it’s trial and error. And then also just, it’s a lot of coordination between folks and knowing how to read the room when you’re doing a podcast as a whole, but then also the external parts of coordinating with guests and recognizing what their backgrounds and strengths are and how to elevate those, really. So people could hear them.

And that really plays into the communicating science to people too. We’ve seen that during the pandemic as well. There’s a lot of issues in public health with communication. And how do we refine that. So we are getting a consistent and clear message across to people about safety, about vaccinations, about paths forward. And so really it’s been a wonderful crash course and having all of those skills, kind of thrust to the forefront and refined over the time period with the podcast and to yourself to, Oge. When you’re looking back at the podcast, what do you think you’ve pulled away during your two years here?

Oge Chigbo:

Yeah, I think everything you just said, I was here heavily nodding and it’s also because there’s a lot of skills, as you said, don’t we develop over time because every single episode or, well, most of our episodes are kind of different, probably ’cause it’s very different. Like it’s very encompassing. It’s the same thing, but different subsets and different sections or subcategories. So before you host an episode, you have to kind of do your whole background search, but In the topic, In the person you’re interviewing. So you you’re able to tailor the question to that specific person. And I think that’s really like soft skills building and it just makes you fast on your feet. And I know this is what we’re going to talk about, about favorite episodes. But I just remember when COVID started and everyone was so fast, like every second were researching something new.

So we’re not leading our audience astray. We were like, “Oh, misinformation, disinformation, no, we don’t want that.” So everybody has… Oh God, it was fun. It was exhilarating. It was fun. So yeah, I think that’s something. And the fact that no one knows everything. You’re not an expert or you’re not good at something until you’re comfortable searching for information when you lack it and being able to know where you can find that information. So I think that’s something the podcasts taught to me and I got really comfortable with. The next question is what’s been the biggest challenge for you as a communicator?

Steve Sonnier:

I think that one of the biggest challenges as a communicator really is that active listening piece. And you really refine it while you’re doing the podcast and over multiple episodes. But I know definitely at the start you’re not tuned in, I would say ,as much to the person. And you’re more anticipating when do I ask the next question, getting the timing down. You’ve got it. Exactly. You’re trying to figure out that, and that really disrupts the flow of conversation, you don’t have that authentic interaction. You’re not present with the person when you’re in that. When you’re in the episode to showcase what they’re all about and hear from their perspective. That inability to have that active listening at first can hamper you. And I definitely felt that too. And luckily, I think I’ve been able to overcome it. Obviously, it’s still an area that I want to work on continually. I think we all do. But I think starting out that was one of the hardest pieces that I faced was the active listening portion. What do you think about that side of thing?

Oge Chigbo:

Yes, because sometimes failure to actually have the whole active listening component kind of looks like you’re being dismissive because you’re not acknowledging what the participants said or the person you’re interviewing said. You’re just going to the next thing. Kind of like “Okay. You said that that was good information but let’s go.” I think It really then helps you to actually listen so you can have a little communication or conversation in between, before you move into the next question. Or sometimes, well I did, or even when Ian was, I kind of reiterate something like, “Okay, so when you said this, this is what you mean?” So kind of like being students that are learning. So if other people from diverse audiences, maybe undergrads listening to they don’t really… Or people who aren’t really into public health, don’t get the terms. So we said it again and then they get to explain a little bit further and also we’re learning. So it’s like, “Oh, okay.” So we’re all learning. So, what was your favorite episode that you’ve done?

Steve Sonnier:

There’s a really good episode that we had done, I believe is pre pandemic, but it was with Rhonda Randall and it was talking about America’s health rankings. And I thought that was one of the most fascinating episodes for me, I am very big data guy, but also just seeing how policies play out and influence things. Right. We really look at a lot of policy diffusion and see how that really impacts health from a state to state basis, to other states learn from other states.

And how does that play out with their populations? And so really having that centralized ranking that you could look at and see the progression of states over time, I thought was tremendously cool. And I didn’t know that, that resource was out there. And so for me to reflect on that, going into that health policy analysis space was really critical, because then I had a baseline for comparison and saying, “Here’s the areas that we need to focus on.” And I used that in several papers actually, where I was able to say, “People in states use this ranking to address major public health issues. And here’s what they’ve been able to do as a result of it and address the significant health disparities.” And so that was an incredibly enlightening podcast for me to take part in.

Oge Chigbo:

Right. So the podcast is giving people degrees. Oh, I love it. Honestly my favorite episodes, any episode that highlights social determinants of health, health equity. Cause I know we’ve had multiple of them and I’m just always like, “Yes. That’s where it’s at.” And right now that’s what I’m trying to do, really get into the whole health equity, monitoring health disparities, in the field of public health because that’s just a really big part of, at least where we are right now with public health, public health 3.0.

And then loved COVID series, love the mini series. That was exciting. Loved… I know Ian will want me to say this. That’s what I’m saying. I’m just saying this for Ian. Cause I knew he’d been listening, I love this episode that I did during that whole time of last summer about being black in America or black students. I love that one, Ian this one is for you. I love that one because I think that one, I was very much like the orchestrator I, everything. I think it was my first one I kind of like produced. First and last, because that was a lot. I was like, “I don’t want to be a producer. It’s okay. Thank you. ” Well, I’ll be a host after that. It was a lot but it was good.

Steve Sonnier:

That one is one of my favorite ones, obviously too. And then also the international student, when we were talking about the potential policy changes there and having the voices of our colleagues, our friends here. It was heartbreaking to hear when we were seeing these potential loss of these really talented individuals and fortunately the policy was rescinded, but really bringing home to the issues that affect our students here in the College of Public Health, it was meaningful. And I really enjoyed engaging in that opportunity to. I know that, when we’re going through the podcast, we always at the end, we always ask people what’s that one thing that you thought you knew but were later wrong about. And so now we have that wonderful opportunity for you to answer that. What on your end is one thing that you thought you do, but were later wrong about?

Oge Chigbo:

Myself. I feel like I’ve given this answer before too. And I keep on saying it’s because I keep on surprising myself every single time. As you said right now, every single time I’m a different person, when you just see me. And I love that because I am evolving and it’s so beautiful to see because I never knew I had this range. But I can just feel myself not being at my final potential yet. And that’s also because of what pushed me to want to figure out me more was this program. I feel like there’s just a lot of obstacles that I kind of downplayed, but really pushed me to the edge that made me sit down and figure out myself. Who I am? What do I want? Where do I want to go? So questions like that and all the answers I’ve found for who I am right now, never would I have imagined, but I love it. So yes, I’m happy [inaudible] It’s a process. So for you, what is one thing you thought you knew or later realize you were wrong about?

Steve Sonnier:

That’s hard. I think it’s a very similar. I didn’t know, I think, for myself that I could achieve as much as I have been able to achieve while I’ve been at the College of Public Health. My background in education was not fully robust until I got to the graduate school. I had done a little bit of work in the healthcare space beforehand. I was really convinced that that is the space I wanted to be in. And then I really started to see these patterns emerge upstream that I thought, wow, I really want to solve this, but I don’t know how. And really during my time at the College of Public Health. And the connections and the opportunities that I’ve had the chance to take part of, they’ve really helped encourage me to recognize that I do have that skillset, that much like yourself, that you’re an evolving person, you’re an evolving process.

And that it’s important to challenge yourself in these difficult way. So obviously we do not want another pandemic to be part of that challenge. I forget what it is, the old saying, I think it’s “Iron sharpens iron,” You really want to be around people who are sharp as a tack, who are passionate, who want to go out there and change the world. And that’s something that I’ve been able to, fortunately, be a part of why I’m here. And I didn’t expect that to be what I experienced coming to the College of Public Health. I didn’t have that mindset initially. And I’m just so pleased with how the experience turned out, all things aside.

Oge Chigbo:

Yeah. That’s one thing I will say to plug the college. And especially if you’re a new coming student look for a graduate assistantship. Not only do they have scholarships, but they actually push you to use the information you’ve learned from class and you actually apply it to real life situation. And your mind is going to be blown because it’s so tough, but you’re going to grow so much. You’re not going to be the same person you were entering the program, leaving. Definitely you will not. That’s a promise. So which guests gave you the best answer to that question?

Steve Sonnier:

I’ll go with Ian, one of my favorite Ian quotes, something along the lines of we spend all day looking at data, and we really miss looking at the people who are in that data. And the stories that are in there. And I think that you see that, right when you start out as a student. And you’re focused on learning the foundations, the theory, that data analytics and that’s all well and good. And you think that you’re supposed to be going on that route. And it’s very important to have that, but really when it comes into the practice of public health, right, it’s about community integration.

It’s about representing people at levels that need voices there. And really that’s something that I’ve always held dear, is that transformation of , yes, you do come in and you want to understand how things happen in a textbook. That’s really critical, of course. But then recognizing what communities are already doing. I think a lot of people don’t see that community-based organizations are doing a lot of what we’re talking about in the textbook. And it’s just a matter of elevating and connecting with those voices and bringing them to the forefront. And that’s a very important skill that I think you do learn in the course of your public health degree.

Oge Chigbo:

Yes.

Steve Sonnier:

How about you on your end? What do you think the best answer was to that question?

Oge Chigbo:

I think the best answer for me is anyone, no offense people, but is everyone who has answered that question, but did not have to do with the fields that they’re working in. Because sometimes when I ask that question, I’m hoping to hear very like absurd response, which I actually have had some, but I think most times I feel like sometimes because it’s a podcast and it’s a very university podcast. Everyone is very, Okay. This is the topic, let me see, your head is already warped around the specific topic. So that’s how you be thinking about, but sometimes I’m like, it could be anything, [inaudible] . Like you could just think of anything and to say… Sometimes I’m secretly hoping someone else has an even more [inaudible] mindset to make myself feel better.

Steve Sonnier:

When you’re talking about that too, that very much relates to the next question about thinking about outside the world of public health, right? We get so consumed with talking about it. We live it at the graduate level. We are in broiled in it now with the pandemic, but outside of the field of public health, what’s got you interested lately?

Oge Chigbo:

Right now, I am obsessed with roller skating.

Steve Sonnier:

Really?

Oge Chigbo:

I am learning how to skate. I don’t know how to, I’ve tried for like 10 seconds, like my whole life. But right now I’ve been obsessively watching YouTube videos. I bought my first roller skates and I’m waiting for it to come. I have all the gear ready, all my protective knee pads, elbow pads. I said this summer is a summer that I skate. I skate all summer. So yeah, that’s my latest obsession. What about you?

Steve Sonnier:

I’m going to take a minute and acknowledge how cool that is. I was watching this the other day, it was a wonderful YouTube video of some folks who were just, it was a disco skate session somewhere in Brooklyn, I think, New York. And everyone’s wearing their master, having a dancing party. They’re all doing a skate rink thing. And I was like, “That’s fantastic.” It’s just so much fun. That’s a fantastic one. What’s outside the field of public health is interested in me lately? I got to go with my kiddo. That’s my fallback. It’s really crazy having a kid during graduate school, during a global pandemic and figuring out. Just watching a kid grow in front of you, it’s really just a fun journey because you get to see what you fell in love with probably as a kid and you get to show them all over again.

I get to be excited about, we’re going to go to a farm, we’re going to go to a museum and it doesn’t even need to be anything complicated. Right? Farms are equivalent to zoos in his brain of like, this is exciting. Seeing a cow is probably the equivalent of seeing an alligator. You’re still going to be as excited. So it’s nice to have that grounding moment with him throughout the day and be totally energized by him. It’s, it’s just fantastic. So I would say I’m totally engrossed in his little learning lifestyle and everything along those lines, it just makes the day so much more fun.

Oge Chigbo:

I would also like to plug our listeners that Steve’s son is the youngest CPH master’s of public health graduate, because he really went through this whole master’s program with us. Cause yeah, he was born when we started.

Steve Sonnier:

He was born when we started, he’d been on a few zoom meetings too. He might’ve helped with a paper or two.

Oge Chigbo:

Right.

Steve Sonnier:

So I got to give him credit.

Oge Chigbo:

Yeah. We need to give him his accolades. He has to be in the graduation pictures . And then all of us gushing over him anytime we got the chance.

Steve Sonnier:

Yeah, I still have that picture of him sitting there in his little seat at the College of Public Health, just surrounded by people.

Oge Chigbo:

Yeah. I feel kind of happy for him that the pandemic status, because in my day, depending on what goes in there and we’ll just always be asking for him 24/7. It might have been also good for him too, because he can come to our classes and the teachers would be cool because yes, he’s our bright star.

Steve Sonnier:

It’s been really quite a blessing. I always think about it as he’s young enough where he doesn’t recognize that there’s a pandemic going around, that people are having to wear a mask, that this is a difficult time for folks. And his focus is on, can I climb a staircase? Can I slide down a slide? And it’s nice to have that granular view, especially now when things are difficult and it’s really nice to see him smile and get excited about the world that it really gives me a lot of hope and positivity this days.

Oge Chigbo:

I can’t wait for him to see that there are other kids too. If it he hasn’t .

Steve Sonnier:

He is learning.

Oge Chigbo:

Okay. The next question. So what’s next for you?

Steve Sonnier:

I’m very excited to announce that I joined on with MITRE as a health policy analyst. And so they’re an organization based in McLean, Virginia. And our primary focus is on solving problems for a healthier and safer world. And so I’ll primarily be working with them, specifically on their center for Medicare and Medicaid side of things. And so it’ll be a really exciting opportunity to look more at health policy analysis and especially, one with this new administration and the challenges that they’re facing, but also the challenges of the pandemic and how we’ve seen health disparities. And social determinants of health really come to the forefront, and making those part of our transition from this quantity based healthcare system to more of a quality based one. One that focuses on the needs of individuals. And so part of that role will be looking at how policies and what the next steps are forward. And so I’m really to join on.

Oge Chigbo:

Yeah, that’s good.

Steve Sonnier:

How about yourself Oge? What’s up next for you?

Oge Chigbo:

It’s just going to be a very spontaneous journey, which is the best thing. So what’s next for me? I’m moving down South to Georgia, and fingers crossed, I will get a job. Just job search right now. I just like the fact that when I started my job search was kind of like a very open, which was months ago, cause I was very like, anything in public health, I would do it. It’s fine. I’m going to learn more. But now that I’m done, I’m like health equity. No, I don’t want that. I’ve seen a lot of data and analysis things and I was like, I do have intermediate skills, [inaudible 00:00:24:41] , but I don’t see coding statistical analysis in my future. No, no I don’t. I’m excited now to do that with a more focused lens because before it was just open, but now I kind of like this is really what I want to do. But if I find something that is kind of close to it, I’m going to take it, you know? So it’s exciting. I’m excited.

Steve Sonnier:

You’re going to rock it. I’m so excited for your next steps.

Oge Chigbo:

Thank you. I know I’m going to be a boss. So do you have anything else you want to say before we go?

Steve Sonnier:

I think about this a lot. When I was considering public health as an option, I looked back on my experiences going into it, and it really was something that I hadn’t fully considered. had done bits and pieces of public health along my undergraduate career and afterwards. And then when I was working with the healthcare space, it really started to see that I could use my skills in major science classes, anatomy, physiology is my background primarily, and my health care expertise to really push forward for positive health policy implementation . Because I could see what happens on the ground level, right.

Instead of just reading about in a textbook, I know what this looks like when you’re on an ambulance. I know what this looks like when you’re dealing with, people in emergency, et cetera. And for me, that was a really powerful reckoning is that we all come from these diverse backgrounds and they all feed into public health and that was really critical. And so I would think that for folks who are listening, who are contemplating this field, it’s something to dwell on is , what experiences do you bring from your personal life that lived experience that can make other people’s lives better? And public health is definitely that field for that.

Oge Chigbo:

Yeah. We talk a lot also about cultural competency. Being able to understand or acknowledge that people have different experiences, cultures from you, and have being able to accept that or kind of like be open to kind of see things from their own perspectives and things like that.

Steve Sonnier:

Anything else before we go on your end? Last advices, last tidbits?

Oge Chigbo:

I just want to say that I am going to miss being a host. This has been one of my pride and joys, to be honest, I was like, “Oh yeah, I’m a host on a podcast.” And everyone is like, “Oh you are?” And I am like, “Yes.” I think I appreciate all the love that we’ve gotten on the podcast. I appreciate all the acknowledgement. Also, I would like to shout out to Paul Gilbert for acknowledging me as a host on this podcast for the first time we ever spoke. So Paul, if you’re listening to this, thank you so much that really, really made my day. And yes, I appreciate you guys, for tuning in. Oh my God. So it kind of sounds emotional for me, but yes, I really appreciate you guys. I appreciate the people who are going to take over. There’s going to be another podcast for that, we’ll not be on that. Show them love just as much as you showed us. We appreciate everything. Thank you.

Steve Sonnier:

It’s been a wonderful two year journey, and we’re grateful for all of you who tuned in and please continue to tune in for our next set of director and other folks who will be chiming in and making this podcast grow and thrive. So we’re excited for their success too, as well.

Oge Chigbo:

Yeah. So Steve, where can people find you?

Steve Sonnier:

The best way they connect with me is on LinkedIn. That’s the fastest way to find me. I’m pretty active on there. And Oge yourself, where can people find you?

Oge Chigbo:

I forgot I had a LinkedIn to be honest, but yes, LinkedIn works. So you can find me on LinkedIn. My name is Oge Chigbo, C-H-I-G-B-O, is my last name. First name O-G-E. So, O-G-E, C-H-I-G-B-O or you can find me on Facebook. I am never on Facebook except for marketplace, but hopefully when I’m searching in marketplace, I will see your message and reply. Those are the two places you can find me.

That’s all we have today. So, all right. We’re out of here. You can find us on Facebook at the University of Iowa College of Public Health. We’re an iTunes and Spotify, as well as the University of Iowa College of Public Health. Let us know what you thought about this episode and series at cph-gradambassador@uiowa.edu. This episode of From the Front Row was hosted by Oge Chigbo and Steve Sonnier and it’s produced by Steve Sonnier. Don’t forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts and share our podcast with some people you know. So bye guys, and for my last, ‘see you next week!’